tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post116483032865291548..comments2023-11-02T07:53:45.876-07:00Comments on Girl's Gone Child: The Santa Claus ParadoxGIRL'S GONE CHILDhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07130764109593048451noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1166472556224643402006-12-18T12:09:00.000-08:002006-12-18T12:09:00.000-08:00Yes, it's amazing what things people believe when ...Yes, it's amazing what things people believe when they're little, and even MORE amazing what other things many adults believe (again, because just like children, they WANT to believe it). Speaking of which:<BR/><BR/> One thing that struck me as odd in the days after 9/11 was Bush saying "We will not tolerate conspiracy theories [regarding 9/11]". Sure enough there have been some wacky conspiracy theories surrounding the events of that day. The most far-fetched and patently ridiculous one that I've ever heard goes like this: Nineteen hijackers who claimed to be devout Muslims but yet were so un-Muslim as to be getting drunk all the time, doing cocaine and frequenting strip clubs decided to hijack four airliners and fly them into buildings in the northeastern U.S., the area of the country that is the most thick with fighter bases. After leaving a Koran on a barstool at a strip bar after getting shitfaced drunk on the night before, then writing a suicide note/inspirational letter that sounded like it was written by someone with next to no knowledge of Islam, they went to bed and got up the next morning hung over and carried out their devious plan. Nevermind the fact that of the four "pilots" among them there was not a one that could handle a Cessna or a Piper Cub let alone fly a jumbo jet, and the one assigned the most difficult task of all, Hani Hanjour, was so laughably incompetent that he was the worst fake "pilot" of the bunch, with someone who was there when he was attempting to fly a small airplane saying that Hanjour was so clumsy that he was unsure if he had driven a car before. Nevermind the fact that they received very rudimentary flight training at Pensacola Naval Air Station, making them more likely to have been C.I.A. assets than Islamic fundamentalist terrorists. So on to the airports after Mohammed Atta supposedly leaves two rental cars at two impossibly far-removed locations. So they hijack all four airliners and at this time passengers on United 93 start making a bunch of cell phone calls from 35,000 feet in the air to tell people what was going on. Nevermind the fact that cell phones wouldn't work very well above 4,000 feet, and wouldn't work at ALL above 8,000 feet. But the conspiracy theorists won't let that fact get in the way of a good fantasy. That is one of the little things you "aren't supposed to think about". Nevermind that one of the callers called his mom and said his first and last name ("Hi mom, this is Mark Bingham"), more like he was reading from a list than calling his own mom. Anyway, when these airliners each deviated from their flight plan and didn't respond to ground control, NORAD would any other time have followed standard operating procedure (and did NOT have to be told by F.A.A. that there were hijackings because they were watching the same events unfold on their own radar) which means fighter jets would be scrambled from the nearest base where they were available on standby within a few minutes, just like every other time when airliners stray off course. But of course on 9/11 this didn't happen, not even close. Somehow these "hijackers" must have used magical powers to cause NORAD to stand down, as ridiculous as this sounds because total inaction from the most high-tech and professional Air Force in the world would be necessary to carry out their tasks. So on the most important day in its history the Air Force was totally worthless. Then they had to make one of the airliners look like a smaller plane, because unknown to them the Naudet brothers had a videocamera to capture the only known footage of the North Tower crash, and this footage shows something that doesn't look like a jumbo jet, but didn't have to bother with the South Tower jet disguising itself because that was the one we were "supposed to see". Anyway, as for the Pentagon they had to have Hani Hanjour fly his airliner like it was a fighter plane, making a high G-force corkscrew turn that no real airliner can do, in making its descent to strike the Pentagon. But these "hijackers" wanted to make sure Rumsfeld survived so they went out of their way to hit the farthest point in the building from where Rumsfeld and the top brass are located. And this worked out rather well for the military personnel in the Pentagon, since the side that was hit was the part that was under renovation at the time with few military personnel present compared to construction workers. Still more fortuitous for the Pentagon, the side that was hit had just before 9/11 been structurally reinforced to prevent a large fire there from spreading elsewhere in the building. Awful nice of them to pick that part to hit, huh? Then the airliner vaporized itself into nothing but tiny unidentifiable pieces most no bigger than a fist, unlike the crash of a real airliner when you will be able to see at least some identifiable parts, like crumpled wings, broken tail section etc. Why, Hani Hanjour the terrible pilot flew that airliner so good that even though he hit the Pentagon on the ground floor the engines didn't even drag the ground!! Imagine that!! Though the airliner vaporized itself on impact it only made a tiny 16 foot hole in the building. Amazing. Meanwhile, though the planes hitting the Twin Towers caused fires small enough for the firefighters to be heard on their radios saying "We just need 2 hoses and we can knock this fire down" attesting to the small size of it, somehow they must have used magical powers from beyond the grave to make this morph into a raging inferno capable of making the steel on all forty-seven main support columns (not to mention the over 100 smaller support columns) soften and buckle, then all fail at once. Hmmm. Then still more magic was used to make the building totally defy physics as well as common sense in having the uppermost floors pass through the remainder of the building as quickly, meaning as effortlessly, as falling through air, a feat that without magic could only be done with explosives. Then exactly 30 minutes later the North Tower collapses in precisely the same freefall physics-defying manner. Incredible. Not to mention the fact that both collapsed at a uniform rate too, not slowing down, which also defies physics because as the uppermost floors crash into and through each successive floor beneath them they would shed more and more energy each time, thus slowing itself down. Common sense tells you this is not possible without either the hijackers' magical powers or explosives. To emphasize their telekinetic prowess, later in the day they made a third building, WTC # 7, collapse also at freefall rate though no plane or any major debris hit it. Amazing guys these magical hijackers. But we know it had to be "Muslim hijackers" the conspiracy theorist will tell you because (now don't laugh) one of their passports was "found" a couple days later near Ground Zero, miraculously "surviving" the fire that we were told incinerated planes, passengers and black boxes, and also "survived" the collapse of the building it was in. When common sense tells you if that were true then they should start making buildings and airliners out of heavy paper and plastic so as to be "indestructable" like that magic passport. The hijackers even used their magical powers to bring at least seven of their number back to life, to appear at american embassies outraged at being blamed for 9/11!! BBC reported on that and it is still online. Nevertheless, they also used magical powers to make the american government look like it was covering something up in the aftermath of this, what with the hasty removal of the steel debris and having it driven to ports in trucks with GPS locators on them, to be shipped overseas to China and India to be melted down. When common sense again tells you that this is paradoxical in that if the steel was so unimportant that they didn't bother saving some for analysis but so important as to require GPS locators on the trucks with one driver losing his job because he stopped to get lunch. Hmmmm. Further making themselves look guilty, the Bush administration steadfastly refused for over a year to allow a commission to investigate 9/11 to even be formed, only agreeing to it on the conditions that they get to dictate its scope, meaning it was based on the false pretense of the "official story" being true with no other alternatives allowed to be considered, handpicked all its members making sure the ones picked had vested interests in the truth remaining buried, and with Bush and Cheney only "testifying" together, only for an hour, behind closed doors, with their attorneys present and with their "testimonies" not being recorded by tape or even written down in notes. Yes, this whole story smacks of the utmost idiocy and fantastic far-fetched lying, but it is amazingly enough what some people believe. Even now, five years later, the provably false fairy tale of the "nineteen hijackers" is heard repeated again and again, and is accepted without question by so many Americans. Which is itself a testament to the innate psychological cowardice of the American sheeple, i mean people, and their abject willingness to believe something, ANYTHING, no matter how ridiculous in order to avoid facing a scary uncomfortable truth. Time to wake up America. <BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Debunking Popular Mechanics lies:<BR/>http://www.lookingglassnews.org/viewstory.php?storyid=6880<BR/>someone else debunking Popular Mechanics crap:<BR/>http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_mech/reply_to_popular_mechanics.htm<BR/>still more debunking Popular Mechanics:<BR/>http://letsroll911.org/ipw-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=5505<BR/>and still more debunking of Popular Mechanics:<BR/>http://www.reopen911.org/ericreubt.htm<BR/><BR/>Popular Mechanics staff replaced just before laughable “debunking” article written:<BR/>http://www.reopen911.org/hiddenhand.htm<BR/>another neo-con 9/11 hit piece explodes, is retracted:<BR/>http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2006/180806hitpiece.htm<BR/>Professor Steven Jones debunks the N.I.S.T. “report” as well as the F.E.M.A. one and the 9/11 commission "report":<BR/>http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/wtc_buildings_collapse_steven_jones.htm<BR/>N.I.S.T. scientist interviewed:<BR/>http://www.teamliberty.net/id235.html<BR/>F.B.I. says no hard evidence linking Osama bin Laden to 9/11 which is why his wanted poster says nothing about 9/11:<BR/>http://forum.afghansite.com/index.php?showtopic=9349<BR/>Fire Engineering magazine says important questions about the Twin Tower “collapses” still need to be addressed:http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=OnlineArticles&SubSection=Display&PUBLICATION_ID=25&ARTICLE_ID<BR/><BR/>Twin Towers’ construction certifiers say they should have easily withstood it:<BR/>http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2004/121104easilywithstood.htm<BR/>USA Today interview with the last man out of the South Tower, pursued by a fireball:<BR/>http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2001/12/19/usat-escape.htm<BR/>Janitor who heard explosions and escaped has testimony ignored by 9/11 whitewash commission:<BR/>http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/ignoring_9-11.html<BR/>Janitor starts speaking out about it and his apartment is burglarized, laptop stolen:<BR/>http://kurtnimmo.blogspot.com/2005/08/apartment-of-nine-eleven-hero-william_28.html<BR/>Firefighters tell of multiple explosions:<BR/>http://www.wnbc.com/news/1315651/detail.html<BR/>Eyewitnesses tell of explosions:<BR/>http://research.amnh.org/users/tyson/essays/TheHorrorTheHorror.html<BR/>Interview with another firefighter telling of explosions:<BR/>http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Banaciski_Richard.txt<BR/>Firefighter saw “sparkles” (strobe lights on detonators?) before “collapse”:<BR/>http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Fitzpatrick_Tom.txt<BR/>Other eyewitnesses talk of seeing/hearing explosions:<BR/>http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2005/11/more-proof-911-inside-job-witnesses-to.html<BR/>Surviving eyewitnesses talk of multiple explosions there:<BR/>http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/veliz-bombs.htm<BR/>Cutter charge explosions clearly visible:<BR/>http://www.rense.com/general63/cutt.htm<BR/>The pyroclastic cloud (that dust cloud that a second before was concrete) and how it wouldn’t be possible without explosives:<BR/>http://st12.startlogic.com/~xenonpup/physics/<BR/>Detailed description of the demolition of the Twin Towers:<BR/>http://gordonssite.tripod.com/id2.html<BR/>Freefall rate of “collapses” math:<BR/>http://www.911blimp.net/prf_FreeFallPhysics.shtml<BR/>More about their freefall rate “collapses”:<BR/>http://www.serendipity.li/wot/second_wave.htm<BR/>Video footage of the controlled demolition of the Twin Towers:<BR/>http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/video%20archive/<BR/>Video footage of the controlled demolition of WTC # 7 building:<BR/>http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/videos.html<BR/>More of WTC # 7 controlled demolition:<BR/>http://www.wtc7.net/<BR/>Naudet brothers' video footage of the North Tower crash:<BR/>http://www.911blimp.net/vid_Naudet.shtml<BR/>Photos of the Pentagon’s lawn (look at these and see if you can tell me with a straight face that a jumbo jet crashed there):<BR/>http://www.911blimp.net/cached/HuntTheBoeing!.htm<BR/>More photos of this amazing lawn at the Pentagon:<BR/>http://cryptogon.com/docs/Introducing%20the%20amazing%20Penta-Lawn%202000!%20(9-11).htm<BR/>Very unconvincing fake “Osama” “confession” tape:<BR/>http://welfarestate.com/wtc/faketape/<BR/>More about the fake “Osama” tape:<BR/>http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osamatape2.html<BR/>Fake “Mohammed Atta” “suicide” letter:<BR/>http://www.welfarestate.com/wtc/fake-letters.txt<BR/>Commercial pilots disagree with “official” 9/11 myth:<BR/>http://www.prisonplanet.com/september_11_us_government_accused.htm<BR/>More commercial jet pilots say “official” myth is impossible:<BR/>http://www.masternewmedia.org/2001/10/31/commercial_jet_pilots_analysis_of_the_twin_tower_attack.htm<BR/>Impossibility of cell phone calls from United 93:<BR/>http://www.physics911.net/cellphoneflight93.htm<BR/>More about the impossible cell phone calls:<BR/>http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO408B.html<BR/>Experiment proves cell phone calls were NOT possible from anywhere near the altitude the “official” myth has them at:<BR/>http://physics911.ca/org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=9<BR/>Fake Barbara Olson phone call:<BR/>http://www.vialls.com/lies911/lies.htm<BR/>Where the hell was the Air Force?<BR/>http://www.welfarestate.com/wtc/af-scramble.txt<BR/>More about the Air Force impotence question:<BR/>http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0331-11.htm<BR/>Sept. 10th 2001, Pentagon announces it is “missing” $2.3 trillion (now why do you think they picked THAT day to announce it? So it could be buried the next day by 9/11 news):<BR/>http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/29/eveningnews/main325985.shtml<BR/>Unocal pipeline-through-Afghanistan plan:<BR/>http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0513/p05s01-wosc.html<BR/>Unocal pipeline-through-Afghanistan plan mentioned:<BR/>http://thetyee.ca/Views/2006/05/19/OutOfAfghanistan<BR/>More on Unocal Afghan pipeline:<BR/>http://www.newscentralasia.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1031<BR/>The attack on Afghanistan was planned in the summer of 2001, months before 9/11:<BR/>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1550366.stm<BR/>Pentagon deliberately misled 9/11 Commission:<BR/>http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=EGG20060802&articleId=2887<BR/>Evidence destruction by authorities and cover-up:<BR/>http://www.flcv.com/coverup.html/<BR/>9/11 whitewash Commission and NORAD day:<BR/>http://fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/071204_final_fraud.shtml<BR/>The incredible fish tales of the 9/11 Commission examined:<BR/>http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=%20GR20051213&articleId=1478<BR/>Jeb Bush declares state of emergency 4 days before 9/11 for Florida, saying it will help respond to terrorism:<BR/>http://www.eionews.addr.com/psyops/news/jebknew.htm<BR/>Steel debris removal from Ground Zero, destruction of evidence:<BR/>http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/cleanup.html<BR/>Over two hundred incriminating bits of 9/11 evidence shown in the mainstream media:<BR/>http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/911smokingguns.html<BR/>Tracking the “hijackers”:<BR/>http://www.welfarestate.com/911/<BR/>“Hijacker” patsies:<BR/>http://911review.org/Wiki/HijackersPatsies.shtml<BR/>“Hijackers” receiving flight training at Pensacola Naval Air Station:<BR/>http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0208/S00085.htm<BR/>Several accused "hijackers" still alive and well, wondering why they are accused:<BR/>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm<BR/>Yet the F.B.I. insists that the people it claims were the "hijackers" really were the "hijackers":<BR/>http://www.prisonplanet.com/fbi_denies_mix_up_of_911_terrorists.htm<BR/>No Arabs on Flight 77:<BR/>http://www.sierratimes.com/03/07/02/article_tro.htm<BR/>Thirty experts say “official” 9/11 myth impossible:<BR/>http://911fraud.blogspot.com/2005/06/us-governments-offical-911-story-is.html<BR/>“Al Qaeda” website tracks back to Maryland:<BR/>http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/alqmaryland.html<BR/>Al Qaeda videos uploaded from U.S. government website:<BR/>http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2004/140704governmentwebsite.htm<BR/>Operation: Northwoods, a plan for a false-flag “terror” attack to be blamed on Castro to use it as a pretext for America to invade Cuba, thankfully not approved by Kennedy back in 1962 but was approved by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and sent to his desk:<BR/>http://www.prisonplanet.com/us_terror_plan_cuba_invasion_pretext.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1165765863429446422006-12-10T07:51:00.000-08:002006-12-10T07:51:00.000-08:00wait - am I getting this? are you suggesting that...wait - am I getting this? are you suggesting that Santa doesn't EXIST, somehow?<BR/><BR/>*rolls about the floor in fetal position*Debbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14163363926316904033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1165723696439808692006-12-09T20:08:00.000-08:002006-12-09T20:08:00.000-08:00I don't think of Santa Claus as a lie so much as I...I don't think of Santa Claus as a lie so much as I think of him as an ideal. How can anyone say that Santa Claus does not actually exist? Of course he does. He exists everywhere, although he is embodied by different individuals who are not really magical at all. <BR/><BR/>But the idea of Santa IS magic, and that, I think, is what those who share Santa with their children are perpetuating. It's not a lie, it's the idea that there ARE things in life that are beyond reason, beyond understanding, beyond "reality." <BR/><BR/>(I actually believe all that. Even though I'm an atheist. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1165684385490993922006-12-09T09:13:00.000-08:002006-12-09T09:13:00.000-08:00aline..you are so right...and a parent should NEVE...aline..you are so right...and a parent should NEVER impart THEIR strong feelings upon their children.<BR/><BR/>The kids don't know what they are coping attitude about.Crunchy Carpetshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09543476826068578576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1165616698106895522006-12-08T14:24:00.000-08:002006-12-08T14:24:00.000-08:00(Yes, I'm still lurking here... ;) )Diverging slig...(Yes, I'm still lurking here... ;) )<BR/><BR/>Diverging slightly...<BR/><BR/>I have a nine year old girl in my Girl Guide group (like Scouts, in Canada), who is strongly anti-religion. She will loudly declare at meetings "I'm the only one here who doesn't believe in J.C" (the initialization of Jesus Christ made me sort of laugh, but it's completely untrue, and highly inappropriate). She also mocks other kids for praying at night, and refuses to sing any songs with the word 'God' in them. The Guide promise allows the girls to choose between the word God or Faith. When some girls chose to say God, this little atheist openly told them that God doesn't exist and they are ignorant for believing that stuff. Yikes!!<BR/><BR/>I wholly support giving your children a choice in their faith, but you MUST back this up with respect for the choices of others!! While attacking someone's religious beliefs is far more taboo than spoiling Santa for a child, someone is missing the point along the way...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1165610186141485752006-12-08T12:36:00.000-08:002006-12-08T12:36:00.000-08:00OK, granny here---in the Christmas of 88, I was a ...OK, granny here---in the Christmas of 88, I was a junior in COLLEGE! It's any wonder I can even remember my childhood!<BR/><BR/>Mrs Q is my beloved sister and I've had to live a bit vicariously through this family impasse with her SIL. <BR/><BR/>My biggest issue with her SIL is that she will NOT talk to her children and ask them to not be 'spoilers'. Her kids are old enough to know that they should watch what they say, but one will yell out "SANTA's NOT REAL!" or "THERE IS NO SANTA" at any well-meaning relative who innocently asks him what Santa brought him for Christmas. It has caused us to stay far away from that family for about 5 months (he started his Santa rant in August this year!). I'm all for 'freedom of parenting' but I do expect that parents will teach their kids what is appropriate to say in public, especially when it comes to a subject like Santa. . .Fairly Odd Motherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11974404093257620566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1165600947808092512006-12-08T10:02:00.000-08:002006-12-08T10:02:00.000-08:00Crap...I just read that too! 88!!I graduated High ...Crap...I just read that too! 88!!<BR/>I graduated High School in 86.<BR/><BR/>Christ I am old.Crunchy Carpetshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09543476826068578576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1165596843349462622006-12-08T08:54:00.000-08:002006-12-08T08:54:00.000-08:00I get asked about this all the time. Anyone who k...I get asked about this all the time. Anyone who knows me knows I'm not a Christian, nor am I affiliated with any organized religion or diety. Agnostic or atheist would probably fit me. Anyway, people always ask me if I celebrate Christmas or if I put up a Christmas tree and what will I tell my kids about Santa.<BR/><BR/>Basically my stance is to celebrate with those who surround me, and to honor their traditions and holidays out of respect and love. Everyone we spend the holidays with celebrates Christmas, so we buy gifts, make cookies, etc. If we were spending the holidays with Jews we would celebrate Hanukkah, because I think that's the right thing to do. It would be disrespectful to the people who love you to not be a part of their holidays.<BR/><BR/>I grappled with the whole Christmas tree thing for a long time. Finally last year I put one up because I thought my son would enjoy it, and after researching its history, I discovered that although it has the word "Christmas" in front of it, it actually originated as a Pagan symbol so I can live with that. <BR/><BR/>As for Santa, he doesn't have a damn thing to do with Jesus so I'm fine with him.<BR/><BR/>We totally don't do Easter though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1165581058752331022006-12-08T04:30:00.000-08:002006-12-08T04:30:00.000-08:00mrs q and ggc, I had to respond to mrs q's last co...mrs q and ggc, I had to respond to mrs q's last comment. when i read the date she was in second grade i almost yakked. i never felt like an "older" mom, until now. i graduated in 88, which means by Christmas 88, i was already out and by the next year would be preggers with my oldest. gar my old weak knees could barely carry me to the computer this morning. :)mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13071384539518303978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1165548867874334152006-12-07T19:34:00.000-08:002006-12-07T19:34:00.000-08:00You better believe we do Santa in this house! This...You better believe we do Santa in this house! This is the first year Caleb understands it and it is so stinkin cute. Whenever he sees a pic of him or hears the word he flips out with excitement. I have such great memories of the magic and excitement during the holidays. Honestly, I don't remember when I figured out he wasn't real. It obviously wasn't traumatic in any way. I new a lady that left muddy footprints from her fireplace to the tree every year. Thats commitment to the magic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1165548510732437172006-12-07T19:28:00.000-08:002006-12-07T19:28:00.000-08:00Ok-- I know I posted such a dang l-o-n-g note alre...Ok-- I know I posted such a dang l-o-n-g note already, but GGC, I just had to add one thing. When you were in second grade with that nasty Katie A-nose, I was in effin' high school. Ack. Gasp. My old, gnarled, brittle fingers can barely type these words... Oy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1165538050002399612006-12-07T16:34:00.000-08:002006-12-07T16:34:00.000-08:00My husband and I recently had a discussion about S...My husband and I recently had a discussion about Santa and how it will be a part of our son's life. We agreed that we would not make a big deal about the IMAGE of Santa but we will teach him that he used to be a real person and how his spirit lives on in giving. We will create our own magic by being involved with the community and making magic happen, i.e. soup kitchens, Secret Santa (gifts for a disadvantaged family), etc. After all, magic can happen in many different ways. All of this instead of going to the mall to have a picture taken and other hooplas related to Santa (no offense!). <BR/><BR/>If our son happens to believe in Santa, we certainly won't discourage it or encourage it. We will just let it happen on its own. I have a wonderful Santa book I got for Christmas when I was 7. It tells the story of little boy and how he became the "Santa" that we know today, how he met his wife and how the whole works began. At that time, I was in between the believing and non-believing stage but that book certainly made me feel as if Santa was real. It had answers for all my doubts! I still have the book and will definitely share it with my son. It's just too good not to share! =)Kerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03033383516920538778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1165534539546237912006-12-07T15:35:00.000-08:002006-12-07T15:35:00.000-08:00I actually don't get why this is such an issue. I ...I actually don't get why this is such an issue. I grew up in a Santa/Jesus household. <BR/><BR/>And while I am not a Christian now and while my family were not church goers, life in the UK still centred around the church. You were all hatched, matched and dispatched there. Our school taught bible stories. We had church services, celebrated Harvets and so on.<BR/><BR/>So as a child Christmas was about the birth of baby jesus and I loved singing 'away in a manger' and then we got presents!<BR/><BR/>I think we don't give our kids enough credit and we forget what magic and imaginations were to us. Those of extreme faith seem to fear that the faintly paganistic idea of Santa will eat away at the faith required for God and Jesus...but for kids.....this isn't a struggle....it is all fantasy really till a certain age....and fantsay for a young child is deeply connected to their reality. God can speak to people. Angels exist and so do fairies and elves and Santa.<BR/><BR/>Again....I think we really need to chill out about it all. Remember what being a kid was like for us.<BR/><BR/>I try to talk about all faiths with my kids but they are so young.Crunchy Carpetshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09543476826068578576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1165533326308133442006-12-07T15:15:00.000-08:002006-12-07T15:15:00.000-08:00Oh how sad. I cant remember the time I knew Father...Oh how sad. I cant remember the time I knew Father Christmas wasnt real but whenever it happened it was was never discussed. I had a stocking until I left home at 17. Even now, I wil talk about Santa in front of my mum as if he is real. My mother still gets a sort of stocking off my nan and she's in her 40s.<BR/>My half brother Tom who is now 17 told my sont Tom a few years ago that he didnt exisit. I managed the minimise the damage and persuade my Tom that his uncle was being nasty and fibbing to him.<BR/>My Tom now is pretty sure Santa doesnt exisit but he has never admitted it to me. I only know because I over heard him taling about it with a relative. He is playing the game and knows not to say anything to his younger sister. I will never admit that Santa doesnt exist. Whoever the mother is who thinks this is a lie and wrong to make our children believe, well, she must have had a pretty mixed up childhood. Keep the magic alive. Lighten the fuck up. ;)Kellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11608353600377892342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1165529823169560462006-12-07T14:17:00.000-08:002006-12-07T14:17:00.000-08:00Oh my-- I didn't get to check in until just now, a...Oh my-- I didn't get to check in until just now, and let me say. WHEE. Thanks for all the great points--on both sides. GGC has gone Dear Abby. <BR/><BR/>This all came about when my nephew (soon to be 8) turned to me at a family dinner in AUGUST and out-of-the-blue said, "Auntie, I don't want you to LIE to L-man about Santa." The entire table, who have bitten their tongues for 10 years since my SIL announced no-Santa for her two kids, held their breath. I just said, "Well, I believe in Santa. He's come to my house ever since I lived there." That started a "Let's talk about this later" interruption from my SIL, which is a shame-- I think if she wants her kids to know the truth, let's talk about it—as a family. My son is now 19 months, and didn't get the gist of the conversation anyway. <BR/><BR/>My SIL and I did have a strained conversation again afterward, but I just don't think buys got my ultimate point, which is this: many people disagree on this and other aspects of parenting. And that's OK. But I expect you and your children to respect our choices, just as we've done for you... <BR/><BR/>We will teach that Santa is only real to those who believe. It’s part of the magic. And because many kids do not believe as we do, Santa may not be real to them. But it does not make them BAD children or in any way left out from this or any other holiday. <BR/><BR/>Strangely, my niece and nephew love magic. To me, it’s the same thing. You know David Copperfield doesn’t really make the jet disappear. But while you are curious how it’s done, part of you also doesn’t want to know. That would ruin the fun. (And it's just not nice to ruin fun for others, just because you can.)<BR/><BR/>I think Santa, religion, and magic teaches us to have faith in something we can’t necessarily see. Toyfoto nailed it with “Why bother with novels, or fantasy, or dreams? One person's lie is another's art.” If we are so honest about everything, I worry we will someday live in a world with no writers, musicians and artists.<BR/><BR/>And I agree with so many comments on the commercialization of Christmas. But I don’t blame Santa for that. Santa only fills the stockings and brings a few gifts for under the tree. We refer to the mall Santas as “his helpers” (even though we’d never announce that to anyone else’s kids). When my children begin to ask questions and start “to know”, I will tell them. But I think it’s important for it to come from me, not Katie A-nose, so it is not a sore subject.<BR/><BR/>A read the following post a few months ago, and while some of my beliefs re different, the part where she quotes that old song made me cry. For me, that says it all. http://www.deafhomeschool.com/abundantliving/celebrations/santa.html<BR/><BR/>Phew. Sorry for the rant. Thanks, GGC, and a very Happy Holiday to all-- whichever way you slice it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1165525011413153102006-12-07T12:56:00.000-08:002006-12-07T12:56:00.000-08:00I like when Mamalang said "These are important to ...I like when Mamalang said "These are important to our family, and while I don't expect others to agree with what I teach my children, no one else has the right to crush my children's happiness because they believe I am "lying" to my children. Please, I'll respect your parenting choices, but you have to respect mine."<BR/><BR/>I whole-heartedly agree! There are many many people who believe in things that I do not, but it is certainly none of my business to disrespect their beliefs. I plan on raising my kids to have respect for the beliefs of others and even if they don't have Santa coming to visit them they won't be ruining it for anyone else!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1165522434100739842006-12-07T12:13:00.000-08:002006-12-07T12:13:00.000-08:00aline makes an excellent point, but a point that I...aline makes an excellent point, but a point that I think has more to do with the selling and marketing of <I>things</I> than the idea of faith, goodwill and hope that perhaps we ideally want Santa to embody.<BR/><BR/>Our kids don't need a tickle me elmo to have a rich and fulfilling life, and the Santa you invent can reinforce that.<BR/><BR/>We don't have to teach kids that Santa gets every child what his/her heart desires. Underneath it all, WE are Santas. Our values are his values.<BR/><BR/>We don't have to wait in lines at malls. We can go to parades and wave or show up for the firehouse santas. There are lots of options in the "lie" of Christmas, many of which we ourselves can craft into something that will have lasting meaning.toyfotohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17925976386177377987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1165520925527127082006-12-07T11:48:00.000-08:002006-12-07T11:48:00.000-08:00Thanks Aline!That was a great point. Touche. And t...Thanks Aline!<BR/><BR/>That was a great point. Touche. And thanks for another perspective!GIRL'S GONE CHILDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07130764109593048451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1165519796444995882006-12-07T11:29:00.000-08:002006-12-07T11:29:00.000-08:00They told her the tooth fairy wouldn't come becaus...They told her the tooth fairy wouldn't come because she swallowed the tooth? Okay, we won't even go there. My kids believe in Santa. The older one understands that it's the spirit of Santa we believe in, and that he isn't real. The younger daughter is finding her way through it this year. My son loves the idea of Santa. Santa is commercialized in our house...we see him at events, we don't stand in long lines to talk to him, and he only brings one or two gifts on Christmas morning. But we write letters to him, and he is in our decorations, and we sing songs about him. These are important to our family, and while I don't expect others to agree with what I teach my children, no one else has the right to crush my children's happiness because they believe I am "lying" to my children. Please, I'll respect your parenting choices, but you have to respect mine.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for opening this topic up...I've seen a lot about this lately. Guess it's the hot button this year, just like Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas was last year!Mamalanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00200657325831762553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1165518533348973512006-12-07T11:08:00.000-08:002006-12-07T11:08:00.000-08:00Uh oh... I may have to diverge from the majority o...Uh oh... I may have to diverge from the majority of comments thus far and say that I am not planning on having Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, etc. in my kids lives (no kids yet).<BR/><BR/>My parents did do the Santa thing for my brother and I when we were kids. We were also ridiculously poor, and that may make you think that we needed magic that much more. But I had my talking stuffed animals and My Little Ponies (who I was so sure came to life at night that I'd sleep with them under my pillow so I could feel them move!). My mom told me about Santa when I was 5 (and I instantly asked about the rest of them). I'd been doubting it since I could talk (why do the toys say Made in China if they are made at the North Pole?) and maybe she thought I was ready (I cried and she feels awful to this day).<BR/><BR/>I recently had a discussion with my mom and told her that I won't be doing the Santa thing for my kids. Naturally she thinks it's her fault, but it's not. I just don't like the commercialized Santa business. I agree that magic is important, but paying $12 for a photo with Santa (after waiting in line for 2 hours), is just silly. Spending a frantic Saturday in the mall just to get your kid that Elmo he asked Santa for is very far from magical. Telling your crying six year old that the toothfairy will NOT cut her stomach open to get the tooth she swallowed doesn't really capture the magic either (Yes, this was my cousin). What about the hordes of abandoned rabbits at the shelters when they aren't so cute and Easter-y anymore?<BR/><BR/>I don't think that your child not believing in Santa makes them grow up any faster. There is plenty of magic that you don't have to pay for and many things that you can celebrate each winter without a fat man in your chimney!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1165513453751052822006-12-07T09:44:00.000-08:002006-12-07T09:44:00.000-08:00No kids yet, but I'm 27 and believe in Santa. He ...No kids yet, but I'm 27 and believe in Santa. He still comes to see me, my sister, and now my husband on Christmas morning. My mother's comment when I asked (at 11!) was "As long as you believe in the spirit of Santa, he will come."Stephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18219251505121412220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1165512388598400492006-12-07T09:26:00.000-08:002006-12-07T09:26:00.000-08:00Great comments! All of these are so right on. Tota...Great comments! All of these are so right on. Totally agree. <BR/><BR/>"The magic inherent in childhood is a special gift that I don't think we have the right to take away... Should they have to be little adults? Santa, the tooth fairy, imaginary friends, "talking" stuffed animals... these are the special province of childhood, and should be protected and nurtured. A childhood without them is less of a childhood." WAS SO RIGHT ON!!<BR/><BR/>And TOYFOTO, once again you have me nodding and saying yes! yes! yes!!!<BR/><BR/>Thank you all for sharing!GIRL'S GONE CHILDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07130764109593048451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1165510068063634992006-12-07T08:47:00.000-08:002006-12-07T08:47:00.000-08:00I so agree with all of you! Why do some people ha...I so agree with all of you! Why do some people have to be such assholes and take the fun out of everything?<BR/>Santa was awesome growing up. I found out in the third grade(heard the parents wrapping presents)but the cool part was waking up and still having the stuff.<BR/>Now as an adult, I could care less about getting presents. It's the excitement of seeing the kids faces when they round the corner and see the tree on Xmas morning. That's what makes my Christmas! And makes me glad that Santa is alive and well at my house; and will be until the kids come home from college and say "give it up Mom, we're 21".--Bama MomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1165508516199415752006-12-07T08:21:00.001-08:002006-12-07T08:21:00.001-08:00I agree with what everyone else says...Sometimes t...I agree with what everyone else says...<BR/><BR/>Sometimes the world seems zapped of mystery, magic, excitement, giving, etc. I don't think its bad to try to but some of that back into the world for our kids.braiding mommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04845891446407661946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-1165508464807215392006-12-07T08:21:00.000-08:002006-12-07T08:21:00.000-08:00Of course our daughter will have Santa. My parents...Of course our daughter will have Santa. My parents went out of their way to make my sister and me believe (torn felt on the fireplace grate, ashes tracked on the carpet, etc.) and when we figured it out we never felt lied to. <BR/>The magic inherent in childhood is a special gift that I don't think we have the right to take away. Children, while deserving the truth about the world, also deserve to believe in the magic for as long as possible. Why should they have to be little adults? Santa, the tooth fairy, imaginary friends, "talking" stuffed animals... these are the special province of childhood, and should be protected and nurtured. A childhood without them is less of a childhood.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com