tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post4541724535715604832..comments2023-11-02T07:53:45.876-07:00Comments on Girl's Gone Child: The Redshirts are coming! The redshirts are coming!GIRL'S GONE CHILDhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07130764109593048451noreply@blogger.comBlogger95125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-58504963917399209522011-12-11T10:58:06.233-08:002011-12-11T10:58:06.233-08:00I think this is largely a media thing -- and a blo...I think this is largely a media thing -- and a blog thing?<br /><br />I've had 4 kids go into K now and know ZERO families who held back out of some competitive thing. And I live in brownstone brooklyn where there is plenty of competitive parenting.<br /><br />I know people who have held back for real reasons - which is the only way you can do it in NY (it's hard to hold back unless you can demonstrate a delay via an exam). But that's it!<br /><br />I do wish the public and private schools would get it together in NY. The public cut off is 12/31 . The private schools use a 9/1 cut off (and usually dont take "summer boys") so for parents looking to do public k-5 and then switch to private -- a big population here -- you need to send your kids to school who may be 18 months younger than their classmates. ie, tweens in a class with drivers. And that creates social issues. My 12 year old can't take the subway with friends at night, his 14 year old classmates can (and he could when he's 14 -- by then his friends will be smoking pot at home!) etc etc.<br /><br />But the red shirting as a competitive parenting issue is something I've read about but never seenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-70448149025807769412011-12-09T08:43:39.052-08:002011-12-09T08:43:39.052-08:00My son was old enough to start kindergarten in the...My son was old enough to start kindergarten in the fall of 09. He was born in July and would have been one of the youngest in his class. He's a smart, funny and I believed to be social. His preschool teacher suggested we give him one more year of preschool (pre-k) before sending him off. The summer before the school year we moved from LA to PDX, really didn't want to take the teachers suggestion to keep him out another year thus having to pay an additional year of preschool! We took it upon ourselves enrolled him in our local elementary school and believed all would be good.<br />School started he seemed excited to us; my husband and I were super excited. When we picked him up after school we noticed his pants were damp, he had an accident? My son was totally and completely potty trained so WTF? Second, same thing and he didn't want to talk about school. This continued. By the end of the week the school called my husband and I in for a meeting. If the totally bizarre accidents weren't enough of an indication we were made to see the light. We were told that he wasn't socializing much with the other kids, he was quiet in class but really wasn't following directions well and at recess he was playing alone. The principle and his teacher suggested (to be honest I didn't see it as a suggestion back then but more of a matter of fact statement) we take him out and put him in a Pre-K program. The provided some school names to us and pretty much wished us luck and they'd see us next fall! Hrmph! <br /><br />Okay so maybe his preschool teacher was right. He wasn't emotionally ready. And i'm sure there were lots of other factors like moving to a new state, having no friends at the new school and transitioning from a small preschool to a really big elementary school<br /><br />We enrolled him in a great Pre-K program, he adapted quickly and made lots of new friends who lived in our neighborhood and eventually these kids all moved with him to our local elementary school.<br /><br />He did a great job the following fall starting kindergarten again. He excelled in class and loved talking about school and all he was learning. Yes, he is one of the oldest in his class but it has absolutely no bearing on his learning - he is where he is with school because he is now emotionally and mentally ready for this environment.<br /><br />My son is in first grade now and has blossomed into an eager learner that loves all things science and reading. <br /><br />I think that conversation with his teacher and principal back in the fall of 09 was an eye opener for us and that we took him out of school after only 5 days was probably one of the best decisions we have ever made for him.<br /><br />Ultimately the choice is up to every parent but do it for your child not for yourself.Amberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01835602464262188969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-16808695411421392022011-12-08T13:37:44.477-08:002011-12-08T13:37:44.477-08:00I've gone back and forth on this issue, and so...I've gone back and forth on this issue, and so I appreciate reading all of the comments here. <br /><br />My son, who was born in Arizona (September cutoff), has an October birthday. So I thought the choice was made for us, and I was glad for that. We've since moved to California, and I think the December cutoff is too late, in general. In Arizona we knew lots of people who held kids back, and the extra year of preschool tuition isn't a big deal, because it is so cheap there. Here in the Bay area, nobody holds their kids back it seems, because nobody wants to pay that extra year in tuition. So therein lies my conundrum. I think there's value in going with the group, but there's also value in looking at the individual kid.<br /><br />I have a hard time seeing my son doing well in Kindergarten next year, only because he is a VERY high energy kid who doesn't like being in a big group. He's find on play dates with a couple of kids, but prefers to go off alone to play if the group is larger than 4-5 kids. However, he's already starting to read at barely four, and he can do basic addition and subtraction quite well. We are not hyper-competitive parents, but we just try to read lots of books, talk about what we see and do, and feed his interests in a natural way. <br /><br />I think our plan at this point is to homeschool next year for Kindergarten, and evaluate the following year how things went. If they've gone well and he's ready, we'll put him into first grade with his age group, and if they haven't, he can start Kindergarten. <br /><br />I wouldn't ever hold him back to make him stronger/better/smarter/faster than the other kids, but I would hold him back if I feel he personally isn't ready. I have no worries about his academic abilities, but I do worry about his social and emotional abilities, which may benefit from another year of maturity.JCFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05794172680584750719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-39700197029246014942011-12-07T12:01:44.452-08:002011-12-07T12:01:44.452-08:00There's actually been quite a bit of research ...There's actually been quite a bit of research done on "academic redshirting," and the basic conclusion is that any apparent benefits seem to dwindle off by third grade, at which point the possibility of problems associated with being the oldest kid in the class (ie, the girl who develops earlier than the rest and gets mercilessly teased) can pop up. Of course, this kind of research looks at overall trends, so I'm sure there are lots of individuals out there for whom redshirting has been an overall benefit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-76723555630484155582011-12-07T10:12:36.989-08:002011-12-07T10:12:36.989-08:00Both of my girls will be on the younger side of th...Both of my girls will be on the younger side of their classes. But if they are ready for Kindergarten I will start them. Similar to what Anna Banana said, I like the idea that they will finish college a bit younger than the rest. If anything, if gives them an extra year to figure out what they want - take a year traveling or trying things out...which can ultimately lead to more happiness/contentment in their lives.<br /><br />I just dont see how holding back a "ready" kid helps them down the line. If anything, they will be bored and not challenged when they finally start Kinder. And the boredom is what will make them less inclined to succeed academically.AndreaBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-40922760370637426272011-12-07T10:12:23.053-08:002011-12-07T10:12:23.053-08:00Both of my girls will be on the younger side of th...Both of my girls will be on the younger side of their classes. But if they are ready for Kindergarten I will start them. Similar to what Anna Banana said, I like the idea that they will finish college a bit younger than the rest. If anything, if gives them an extra year to figure out what they want - take a year traveling or trying things out...which can ultimately lead to more happiness/contentment in their lives.<br /><br />I just dont see how holding back a "ready" kid helps them down the line. If anything, they will be bored and not challenged when they finally start Kinder. And the boredom is what will make them less inclined to succeed academically.AndreaBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-39938948605311340382011-12-07T09:14:08.612-08:002011-12-07T09:14:08.612-08:00This is very interesting and relevant as they just...This is very interesting and relevant as they just changed the cut off in Alberta to Dec. 31 from Feb. 28 (!!!) It is a great move, I think, since all those young Feb. babies in my school really struggled in classes full of kids months-to-over-a-year older than them. As it worked out, almost everyone in my class was 17 at graduation, but the year ahead had a big mix of 16/17/18 year olds by December, which caused a lot of social conflict (the drinking age here is 18.)andrea.dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11147006790388316530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-14216148691115545602011-12-07T08:30:04.781-08:002011-12-07T08:30:04.781-08:00I have a late November birthday so I started kinde...I have a late November birthday so I started kindergarten at 4 as one of the youngest in my class. I don't remember any problems in kindergarten but around second grade I struggled with reading, everyone else was picking it up and leaving me behind. It didn't really 'click' until the summer between 2nd and 3rd, I guess those few months really make a difference. The age gap was never really a problem, even when we started driving, but I do wish my parents had explained to me why I was late learning to read. I think those are the kinds of experiences that can make a child feel like they are 'just dumb' and stop trying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-71707021624816876912011-12-07T08:04:08.647-08:002011-12-07T08:04:08.647-08:00I'm a December baby, so I started school when ...I'm a December baby, so I started school when I was 4(The cutoff in Canada was January when I was a kid). I never felt like I was behind any of the kids, and was happy to graduate high school at 17. My mom has said before that she wishes she held me back a year, but she was a stay at home mom, and daycare costs weren't an issue. I think because I had an older brother, and was always surrounded by older kids, I was able to deal with situations and just as mature as the 'older' kids.Raia Runs Wildhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01957160189080769955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-20832554065410886582011-12-07T07:50:27.861-08:002011-12-07T07:50:27.861-08:00This isn't new. I was the youngest in my clas...This isn't new. I was the youngest in my class back in the 70's. It was totally fine in my super-urban elem school where teachers where used to differentiating in the classroom but when we moved to an uber-suburban school, I was in a classroom with kids nearly two years older than me because even back then parents were holding kids back from starting school. I ended up needing to be held back in third grade which was tough. <br /><br />I am considering holding back my September birthday daughter for the opposite reason than you listed. I am so not a hyper-competitive mom. My daughter is in a totally off the radar preschool where they play with fun stuff all day and feed chickens, etc. I feel like if I can give her one more year of pure fun and exploration and then she can start kindergarten after that and be a little older than maybe it is a win-win?Amyhttp://www.girlintheroom.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-71323851688366221872011-12-07T07:17:15.071-08:002011-12-07T07:17:15.071-08:00I just recently finished reading Malcolm Gladwell...I just recently finished reading Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers, and I am now convinced that having a child who is older in his or her class has great benefits. I will mos def be holding my summer-born kiddo back another year even though the preschool cost is going to kill me (yikes!). Anyway, if you are on the line, and need some research to back up your decision, it's a great read.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-74728922984091647642011-12-06T22:50:36.228-08:002011-12-06T22:50:36.228-08:00I have one fall birthday daughter and we chose to ...I have one fall birthday daughter and we chose to hold her back one year. We struggled with the decision because academically and socially she probably would have been fine. It was when a trusted soul asked me to think of her at age 16....could she be <i>too</i> mature then?<br /><br />We waited. She ended up graduating early, but used her "gap" year volunteering, etc. Now she's away at college and I'm SO glad we waited. <br /><br />Just imagine your child in high school. It's a brave new world there these days. I can't imagine what it will be like for today's preschoolers!Melaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04997968372890613797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-5710057545424323882011-12-06T21:38:39.872-08:002011-12-06T21:38:39.872-08:00I am a "redshirter" (although I have to ...I am a "redshirter" (although I have to admit until your post, I had never heard this term) and my decision to hold my daughter back has absolutely nothing to do with her being ready. She is chomping at the bit to go to school and I have no doubt that she would do well and enjoy herself. (She is a late January baby so will be 5 1/2 when she starts kindergarten) I just don't see the rush. Once our children are in "the system", they are in it for the rest of their lives. The idea that kids need to be shipped off so young is crazy to me. I love having her at home. This is a special time in her life and mine and if I have the option to prolong it by one more year, than I'll take it. Kids (especially girls) grow up so fast and are getting exposed to things at a much earlier age than I ever did...I think one more year of play-dough and time with her little brother and being at home with me is a gift - for all of us.KneuroKnuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03875942054080298411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-75707473968088604562011-12-06T21:17:17.918-08:002011-12-06T21:17:17.918-08:00I grew up in Kansas where there was always a Sept....I grew up in Kansas where there was always a Sept. 1 cut off. The late cutoff date for schools on the east and west coast (where i now live)always has blown my mind a little. In my mind, you're five when you start kindergarten and turn 6 during that year. What I also find interesting is that at least in LA & NY if you go to public school there are these late cut offs, however if you send your kid to private school the cut off is Sept. 1. <br />Malcolm Gladwell is not the first person to write about this issue. There has been a great deal of research done and <br />of course every case, every child is different and there are always exceptions. But generally speaking kids are better off being a little older. Particularly as one reader mentioned with kindergarten being much more academic now than it was 20 years ago. The cutoff date in la (and other places) is being changed for a reason. <br />That all being said, I think parents send their kids/don't send their kids for lots of reasons that work for their particular family/situation. I think the term "redshirting" (I've seen this term a lot lately in the media) with the idea that parents are trying to give their child simply an academic advantage makes for an attention grabbing article/discussion topic, but it grossly oversimplifies the issue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-35168124090920442072011-12-06T19:58:22.919-08:002011-12-06T19:58:22.919-08:00A September 13ther - good day Bo and Rev! - I was ...A September 13ther - good day Bo and Rev! - I was 5 when I started first grade and 21 when I graduated college. Academically I was more than ready and now have 2 grad degrees. But socially I was not. I majorly lacked self-confidence, had self-esteem issues, and struggled with bouts of moderate (and some major) depression from age 13-20. I always performed in school though and was a quiet kid so perhaps my parents didn't pick up on it. At age 33 now, I honestly don't feel that I caught up to my peers in some ways until the last few years. So definitely think about academic and social readiness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-30438466833145500532011-12-06T19:14:46.391-08:002011-12-06T19:14:46.391-08:00Well, this was a while ago (I'm 32 years old!)...Well, this was a while ago (I'm 32 years old!) but I was one of the older ones in my class. I turned 18 in the beginning of my senior year in high school. My three year old son is headed the same route as he was born in November.<br /><br />I have a lot of friends who are the opposite, and almost a full year younger than me, and they were in the same class. I have no real data to back this up, and have no idea the relevance -- but oddly enough all of the 'younger' students I know ended up as super high achievers! Ha Ha Ha. And I'm a total 'under achiever'. So who knows?!<br /><br />Sorry, my answer is not helpful! Good luck! I agree the extra $ for preschool is not cool. I support public education starting in preschool! For reals!!!Rebekahhttp://semipseudo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-45813914922706436882011-12-06T19:13:42.038-08:002011-12-06T19:13:42.038-08:00All I can say is Argh! I have one girl whose birth...All I can say is Argh! I have one girl whose birthday is a week after our school's cut-off, and a second whose birthday is the day before. So they are two years apart in age, but they'll be one year apart in school! Since they're only 2 years and 3 months old (respectively) right now, who knows about readiness. But I feel your pain on paying for another year of pre-school. <br />I'm actually suspecting that it might do my older girl some good to wait a year, at least socially (as she gets older, she reveals herself as a wonderfully freaky kid). But I'm pretty sure she'll be reading by then. Fortunately we have a very small school and she may well just be sent to the next room up for some of her work....i can't imagine holding her back deliberately, though. Hello, free public school!!!Meghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03695362727371665841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-40279502976992430922011-12-06T18:54:55.788-08:002011-12-06T18:54:55.788-08:00I am so glad you brought up this topic, as my daug...I am so glad you brought up this topic, as my daughter is 4 days older than Fable, we live in Northern California, and we will have quite a decison on our hands. She's super smart and will be waaaay past ready academically (I blame Nick Jr. Kidding. Kind of!) Emotionally she's about on the younger side of average. Physically, she's teensy tiny. We don't want her brain to stagnate if we hold her, but I do worry about the mean-girl middle school years & would like our sensitive little girlie to be as mature as possible to handle them. I know middle school teachers who tell me parents of girls also need to consider the possibility that if their daughters develop breasts earlier than the other girls in their class (more likely to happen if they are held), they will be in for some pretty terrible teasing from BOTH sexes. Aaaahhh! Decisions.....smak73https://www.blogger.com/profile/17752019809150436197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-5236259955479601012011-12-06T18:31:23.758-08:002011-12-06T18:31:23.758-08:00My grandfather had a lot of pull in his town, so h...My grandfather had a lot of pull in his town, so he got me into pre-k at 2 (this was in Japan). There's a hilarious home video of me in a school play--I was two steps behind everyone else! Obviously, not mature enough. The teachers kept me at pre-k until I was 4. <br /><br />But when I moved to the US at age 5, I was put into kindergarten at a HUGE disadvantage, because I didn't even speak English, so I guess I should have done terribly in school. But I was fine. I caught up in a year. Academically, it shouldn't make a big difference. But, there were some other immigrant boys in my class who started school late (I grew up in NYC) and by senior year of high school, they could grow full beards!pluehttp://imaveg.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-50510277077749715232011-12-06T18:25:59.568-08:002011-12-06T18:25:59.568-08:00My husband and I decided to hold our son back this...My husband and I decided to hold our son back this year. He has an August birthday, so he would have been just barely 5 when school began. We've gotten a lot of raised eyebrows from the other parents in our NY neighborhood, who seem to believe beginning the academic push sooner is always better. But, you know what? For our kid this was the right decision. He would have been academically fine in kindergarten this year, but he would also have been a social nightmare, so for him this was the better solution. And being a good parent is really knowing what will work for your kid--not anyone else's--and making the best decisions you can based on that. The truth is that the worst part of the decision has been the criticism of other parents, and, just as I disliked the combative and oddly competitive breast/bottle or co-sleeping/crib-sleeping mom conversations I had when my kids were small, I dislike now feeling judged by other parents for making the schooling choice that feels right for my family.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-45021100517052909002011-12-06T17:45:48.041-08:002011-12-06T17:45:48.041-08:00Here's an article that argues that holding kid...Here's an article that argues that holding kids back hurts them in the long run as they end up less challenged. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/25/opinion/sunday/dont-delay-your-kindergartners-start.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-11960131681782789452011-12-06T17:34:32.187-08:002011-12-06T17:34:32.187-08:00My kid is only 1 year old and I've just starte...My kid is only 1 year old and I've just started thinking and worrying about this. His birthday is in November which according to the cut-off here means he'll be old for his class. He's a small kid so part of me thinks good (not so he's tougher than your kid just so that he's not so much smaller than everyone else). <br /><br />Now that I see thi though I am just realizing we're going to have to pay for an extra year of preschool! That is no good. Preschool should be part of the public school system since it's basically assumed that your child will attend it at this point.Mama Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17489450713167896817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-45399209099537944172011-12-06T17:06:06.953-08:002011-12-06T17:06:06.953-08:00When I was 4, we lived in Texas, which has a cut-o...When I was 4, we lived in Texas, which has a cut-off date of September 1st. (My birthday is in mid-December.) I went to a Montessori school which tested students and did not group by age. I was with mostly 6 and 7 year old kids, because I was an incredibly BORED child who taught myself to read for entertainment. It was great for me to be in that class.<br /><br />Then! We moved to Connecticut when I was 5 1/2 years old. Where the cut-off date is December 31st. I was BY FAR both the oldest and the shortest in kindergarten. Because I had been in Montessori and could already read, I was bored out of my mind in kindergarten, and that's never a good thing. Granted, many of my issues with that school stemmed from being in a tiny parochial school in a tiny town, but being ahead of all my classmates didn't help. <br /><br />(Incidentally, my girlfriend and I met in high school -- in a completely different state, I moved a lot -- where we were two grades and one year in age apart -- thanks to theatre, we met! Her younger sister is a year younger than me but was in my grade. Now that we're in our late twenties, age doesn't matter as much as the fact that we still both look like we're in high school.)<br /><br />My verdict? It greatly depends not only on the kids themselves but also on the school.Meghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14325005380700159153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-23653909454138326202011-12-06T15:52:04.460-08:002011-12-06T15:52:04.460-08:00I think the child needs to lead the way and can in...I think the child needs to lead the way and can indicate readiness. My daughter is among the youngest and she was very ready (bday late august). My two youngest will cross the same bridge withe late july birthdays. I just did a post about my daughter not being quite ready for preschool, and our "break" before trying again!SupermomWannabehttp://www.supermomwannabe.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18751784.post-8950953891404854992011-12-06T15:37:20.339-08:002011-12-06T15:37:20.339-08:00In NY Kindergarten is NOT mandatory and if you ho...In NY Kindergarten is NOT mandatory and if you hold your child back from Kindergarten, they will enroll them in 1st grade since they will be of age for that grade. So the joke is on the parents who keep them out for the year because when they show up the school will be like haha sucker! Your kid is now going to 1st grade and missed the important transition of kindergarten!! <br /><br />I know this for a fact because it happened to me. I didn't hold my son back on purpose but we lived out of state where his bday made him ineligible for Kindergarten. We moved to NY the following year where the bday requirements were different and they were like "we don't care if he hasn't gone to kindergarten, it's not mandatory anyway. He's going straight to 1st" <br /><br />So how are these people holding their kids back anyway? Private school?jessicanoreply@blogger.com