Comments on Girl's Gone Child: Marriage vs Motherhood

I was so glad you linked to this post in today'...

2011-06-03T11:23:49.949-07:00

I was so glad you linked to this post in today's post. It is unfortunately apropos to my marriage at the moment and I'm hoping that I can take in some of the comments to help me understand my husband better. I was feeling at one with everyone bashing the anonymous troll and then they said something that I have definitely thought - if not actually said out loud - at my husband: that his need for flirtations and attention is because he's insecure and desperate for validation.

Granted, he has been making noises about wanting an open relationship, so our current tentative compromise that he can flirt and carry on by email and occasional phone calls is going much farther than the checking out of hot latte boys/girls that other commenters are describing. It's a daily struggle with myself to understand that as you say perhaps monogamy is not natural; we all have natural mammalian urges; as a comment I read elsewhere said, "You would support the one you love in other urges they have towards happiness, why stifle them here?".

But it is so hard to discern where happy-ever-after monogamy is bred into me, and how much of it is actual pain to my psyche at my husband's desire to share physical and emotional intimacy with others. The little voice in my head says "If he wants to have physical and emotional intimacy with other women, how does our relationship differ from that? How does this make me not just one of many?"

OK THANKS FOR THE FREE THERAPY. Keep doing what you're doing, it's lovely.

So I can't wait to read your book...honestly I fee...

2009-02-15T18:26:00.000-08:00

So I can't wait to read your book...honestly I feel like I can relate to you so much. But at the same my story is so full of drama...but it's so funny how everything works out...I find being in a relationship much tougher although sometimes I don't know what to do as a mom.

For me, motherhood is harder. I chose to be with ...

2009-01-20T14:08:00.000-08:00

For me, motherhood is harder. I chose to be with my husband, but I have these 3 personalities that I *didn't* choose, hanging around all the time! My patience is tried like never before. As someone else said, my husband can dress himself and get himself a cup of milk, unlike my 3 children. :D

I don't think "there's a way out" of my marriage. I think of it as the escape from my mothering! If I could only just be with the person I chose... our time is so short together, since our children are so young. I know, I know, in a few years, I'll be begging my children to acknowledge me on the way to the bus stop in the mornings. But, now, I'd like just a few minutes to use the bathroom by myself. Pleeeze?

-DQ

For me, no contest. Being a Mom is way harder. T...

2009-01-17T18:00:00.000-08:00

For me, no contest. Being a Mom is way harder. To begin with, kids take a very long time to reach the age of reason. :) I've raised 4 kids out of the home, so I"ve been there. :) Interesting post,though.

I agree with everything you said. Especially the ...

2009-01-16T09:09:00.000-08:00

I agree with everything you said. Especially the whole couple and foreverness thing! Couples therapy is good. Everyone should workshop things every once in a while.

Being a wife is nuts and is one of the hardest jobs EVER! I work outside the home and have a pretty successful and demanding career. My husband likes the financial security of that and the upgrades we can get flying first class but is ready to nominate me for worst mom of the year when I get home 10 minutes late and I receive a sharp tongue lashing about not taking this mom thing seriously. Seriously, I breast feed my kid the first 4 months of her life, feed, clothe, make her laugh and found her an amazing bff (nanny) who couldn't love her any more than I do. So why do I suck at being wife? The juggle and struggle is like nothing I ever expected and constantly surprises me. Thoughts? Feelings? Bueller?

Also, wife and mother don't define me totally. It has definitely taken some edge off of me in both good and bad ways but I like being Mom and am as proud of my chicklet as my Mom is of me and my sibs and as I know my sister is of her chickens.

Despite being married but waiting a longggggggasssssssssss time to do so, I come at the whole marriage thing as a cynic and don't necessarily believe that we could or may be together forever or that we are soulmates. My husband thinks we are soulmates and makes that declaration all the time. And I question that. I know I love him enough to have a child(ren) together. We are both committed to not make the same mistakes our parents made or replicating their marriage. We are both painfully aware of that and call each other on it all the time. Bottomline: try to better. check.

That said, growing up with a mother who spends her non-sleeping hours helping to save those people who's lives are no longer meant to be makes me pretty comfortable with the idea of leaving and knowing that I can be happy or happier on my own too.

I have friends who were married 10 -15 years ago that are at a very unhappy place (to put it mildly) in their marriage and trying to find some happiness, self-respect and show their kids how to define and find happiness. For me that is the $1M question. What really is a happy marriage? Thoughts? Feelings?

Off my soap box and will stop my ranting.

Marriage is way harder. In my opinion, teaching r...

2009-01-12T19:29:00.000-08:00

Marriage is way harder. In my opinion, teaching relationship skills should be #1 in high school as having a successful relationship can really contribute or take away from one's happiness. And keeping families intact is of paramount importance. I gotta level with you, I've been married 3 times, always well-meaning and wanting to believe in true love and happily-ever-after but I either picked the wrong man to marry or just didn't know how to deal with issues (or see them coming!). Still with #3 though it hasn't been easy, the older I get the more I think I have finally figured things out, but OH NO I HAVEN'T!!! As for children, yeah they can tear your heart out and make you crazy at times, but when you know that what you do will impact them forever, you do your best to love them unconditionally.

hmmm... neither are any harder than the other for ...

2009-01-12T14:05:00.000-08:00

hmmm... neither are any harder than the other for me. They just are part of my life. i suppose i could analyze them to death but where would that get me. i think the most important thing is happiness-my role as a partner and a mother both make me happy. Getting over the initial shock of being pregnant-having that take the whole lonely 9 months- that was hard and hard for our relationship despite being together for 8 yrs when i got knocked up. Now? they are both wonderful. We aren't married legally. we aren't religious so it holds no meaning to us. Being together always felt right- its always been what i never knew i wanted. we make no expectations of each other. we love each other as people who are different and who could never imagine themselves apart. we work well and adding the kid made it even stronger but it took some shaking out the kinks to get there. we all have our difference in opinions of relationships and what we want and that's hopefully how we find someone to click with. if we're happy i don't care what makes us a couple or family its just us. together. laughing and farting.

I get you on the monogamy is hard front. I've been...

2009-01-12T14:02:00.000-08:00

I get you on the monogamy is hard front. I've been relationshiped for four years, married for 2 and three quarters...we have a baby... and I am happy where I am but I still miss flings. I miss the possibilities of flings, the thrill of having a new lover. But it is what it is.

Having said all that though, I found motherhood soooooooooooooo much harder than marriage.

I think ultimately because my husband is a reasonable human being even when he is being a blockhead, and I can walk away from him. And then we can talk things out and apologise. We can talk things out and make compromises and negotiate.

My son? Not so much. His (highly effective) negotiation strategy consists mainly of screamingness.

Marriage may have restricted some of my life's possibilities, and that made and makes me a little wisful sometimes, but I'm fine with it. On the other hand I experienced motherhood as a sort of tyranny and HATED a lot of it and lived for moments when people came to take the baby off my hands and I could just be ME again, without an inconsolable limpet attached to me.

So, husband easier than son. Because unlike son, husband cooks me dinner when I've had a hard day. also because he can entertain himself and go to sleep without any help from me.

Aw, I loved reading this. Marriage is hard as hell...

2009-01-11T17:49:00.000-08:00

Aw, I loved reading this. Marriage is hard as hell, and I love when people can freely admit that they have been through hell and back and are still together. Myself included!!

They're both hard. But it's easier being married a...

2009-01-11T15:07:00.000-08:00

They're both hard. But it's easier being married after living together for a year or so and waiting five years after we were married to have children.
That way, we got to know each other well, we got to travel all we wanted. Australia! Tahiti! Europe! India!
And we had good careers underway, a beautiful home that we own and money set aside for our babies.
Of course, I was 30 when my eldest was born so I wasn't mistaken for his big sister when we went to the playground, but so what?

Motherhood is harder for me. I had lots of experi...

2009-01-10T19:19:00.000-08:00

Motherhood is harder for me. I had lots of experience with other kids, but not this kid and he's way harder. He needs a lot more from me a lot more of the time than my partner.

My man and I aren't married, but because we met in our 40s, we were already settled and clear about what we wanted. We get along really well and we have a much better relationship than almost all of my married friends! I never thought it would be this easy.

Well I've never been married, and I have no childr...

2009-01-10T01:20:00.000-08:00

Well I've never been married, and I have no children. This wouldn't be so unusual, except that I will be 43 in March! But maybe we're not meant for marriage. After all, the institution of marriage was not developed for love, but for security, possession, and tribal alliances. Marriage is a creation of man, not God.

Sometimes I think an institution of serial monogamy would be more practical. In this plan, vows would not be taken "for as long as you both shall live," but for a set number of years (7-10). Then each spouse would marry a different one for another 7-10 years--resulting in several consecutive wives in each man's life, and several consecutive husbands in each woman's life.

The primary flaw of this plan is confusion for the children ("What happened to my real mommy/real daddy?"). The secondary flaw is that love is not practical!

i've been divorced once and i have since remarried...

2009-01-09T22:59:00.000-08:00

i've been divorced once and i have since remarried...being a wife is hands down much harder than being a parent..with being a parent, you are raising and shaping your kids in to the adults you hope they will be, the kind of adults you want to interact with, however when you are married, you are thrust in to a relationship with someone who was raised VERY differently than you (just having different parents makes it VERY different, other similarities aside) and you have to learn to co exist in a peaceful manner...some times you can find the way to make it work, some times you can't....it does take work, at lot more than raising kids (even extremely challenging kids) and a lot of compromise for both of you...however, when it's right, it's all worth it in the end...by the way, i'm in therapy now, just me, i'm rather screwed up, and i'm there because i recognized that it is what i needed to make my marriage work...trust me, he works at it too, just more at home...

Everyone already knows that anonymous is a troll r...

2009-01-09T15:17:00.000-08:00

Everyone already knows that anonymous is a troll right??? Remember as a kid when your parents told you to ignore the bully and they would lose interest, I believe that applies here too! It is so obviously a 13 year old boy trying to get some moms is a tizzy!

I think this topic is great (I totally stole it) a...

2009-01-09T14:49:00.000-08:00

I think this topic is great (I totally stole it) and I second SLP. Your view is refreshing and in my opinion pretty damn realistic.

P.S. Good on you for just leaving anon's comment. It only make s/him look like a junior high jackass.

I was married for 17 years, have been a mom for ne...

2009-01-09T14:48:00.000-08:00

I was married for 17 years, have been a mom for nearly 15, and since I am still the latter but not the former I say marriage is harder. But I do'nt think in general that has to be the rule -- my marriage died peacefully in its sleep, we have been told many, many times that we are "role models" on how to get divorced because we kept the kids central, we never bad-mouth each other, and we continue to celebrate all the family holidays and events together. So for ME, and how weird is this, divorce is the easiest of all!

Perhaps because in the marriage, I think I did lose my own identity and now that I have it back, I am such a happier person. When I read the comments that talk about the comfort of a good marriage, I am jealous because I didn't have that.

My dream is have a marriage that is so easy I don't even have to think about it.

Hoo, boy. My love in life and I just got through ...

2009-01-09T13:36:00.000-08:00

Hoo, boy. My love in life and I just got through a rough patch, and we realized that rough patch was caused partly because since the little angel was born, we've focused almost all our energy on being good parents and not enough on being good friends and lovers. Since realizing that, we've spend many nights on the couch talking about we want from this thing called marriage and have realized that at the end of the day, we still very much want to be together.

I believe every single day you wake up and choose your spouse. Yeah, we said our vows on the beach seven years ago, but I chose him again this morning. I choose him every day. I can't go through life thinking I am trapped by something I said when I was 28. I have to still want and need it now. And I do, very much I do.

I hear was She Likes Purple says. I met my husband...

2009-01-09T12:46:00.000-08:00

I hear was She Likes Purple says. I met my husband when I was 21 and loved myself and my life. I was so happy with who I was, the was 'the coolest person I knew' (not really, but you know!)

Unfortunately, caring for someone as much as i care for my husband turned me into that little jealous demon. Not quite so bad as SLP says, but still a little resentful of time spent away from me. This was also in part because we moved interstate and had to rebuild a circle of friends, and he made great friends through work, while I didn't. I became the uncoolest person I knew, and I think I am still recovering from that.

Fast forward a few years, and I was making great friends at work, while he was in a new job and didn't have great friends there, and jealousy reared its head in Mr Moi.

Now we operate on a nice balance, been together almost eight years. It's a nice coexistence - probably a bit too comfortable at times, but living in Ukraine has really sapped any romance (in the non-kissy romantic sense) from our lives. Our marriage is a comfortable place to be in this city that saps inspiration and energy from the best people I know.

That being said, we openly admire beautiful women or hot guys to each other. But, we've never viewed marriage as a contract of belonging to one another. We just viewed it as a declaration to the world that we love one another.

Ugh enough blethering soppy crap! Sorry!

So I'm confused now...I've been married almost 10 ...

2009-01-09T12:31:00.000-08:00

So I'm confused now...I've been married almost 10 years and I'm not supposed to dream about Will Smith or Michael Weatherly? Not gonna happen. I think saying that you are married and now have blinders on to anyone else is just not logical. Now that being said, one man is enough for me. He's a lot of work.

For me personally, it depends on the day. There are days when being a wife is tough shit. There are days when I find mothering to be so difficult. Especially in the beginning. Mostly though, those days come from me having issues with being me, when I am feeling insecure in my own skin, feeling like I've lost myself in all of them and I start to feel resentful.

Mostly though, I am just plain thankful for my husband and kids. I think I have it pretty lucky.

I fucking love you, SLP. You totally just inspired...

2009-01-09T12:03:00.000-08:00

I fucking love you, SLP. You totally just inspired my next post. As soon as I can get my baby to remove her mouth from my boob.

My husband doesn't and shouldn't be expected to give me "everything" I need. I'm a complex person with complex needs -- beyond my marriage and children. And THANK GOD. There are too many great conversations, moments, life experiences to be had on the other side of the tracks.

I'm not a mother yet (any day now, though!) but af...

2009-01-09T11:58:00.000-08:00

I'm not a mother yet (any day now, though!) but after reading some comments, I do have some things to add about marriage.

I do have a slight problem with people who think as soon as they said "I do" their eyes (and the eyes of their partner) became securely locked on one another and there will never be a need to look at another person. I find that unrealistic and, also, insecure. If I was threatened by my husband going to a strip club for a bachelor party or admiring another woman's physical appeal or finding a celebrity fantasy-worthy, then what does that say about us? If those trivial things could crack our foundation, was it really all that strong to begin with? I spent years as a very jealous person because of my crippling insecurities and it's what lead me to say to past boyfriends, "Don't look at her! Don't have female friends! Don't be turned on by anyone but me!" I thought that was the only way to really be sure he wouldn't cheat or betray me but ... see ... someone isn't going to cheat because you weren't jealous or controlling enough, you know? They're going to cheat or stray (for the most part, I don't think it's entirely black and white) because of a flaw (usually not a physical flaw) in the relationship. And I've been in relationships and seen relationships where that flaw was insecurity that dictated what one person should or shouldn't do if they were really "in love". (The kind of thinking that leads one to say, "You wouldn't go out with your friends if you REALLY loved me." Which is so unhealthy, in my opinion.)

I also think these grand romantic declarations that "I only have eyes for my partner, the end" aren't really strengthening our culture's view on relationships and marriage. I don't want my husband to spend his every waking moment staring into my eyes. I'd like him to support my passions, listen to me when I talk, laugh with me and give me space to enjoy my friends and personal interests. I don't want a marriage where it's all rainbows and sunshine because how does that challenge me to grow as a woman/person? How does that really strengthen me or make me into someone I can be proud of. Someone my children can be proud of.

In short, I completely understand your point of view, Rebecca, and I not only find it refreshing, I find it ridiculously important.

it's not healthy to enjoy external validation? tha...

2009-01-09T11:55:00.001-08:00

it's not healthy to enjoy external validation? that's insane.

of course you need to dig yourself without it - but denying that some eye contact with the latte boy feels good? that’s pretty ridiculous. i’m married and quite in love with my husband – but i’m not dead! if i’m looking hot and someone recognizes it – it’s nice. simple as that.

thanks, becca, for being candid/normal/kick-ass.

I would say equally hard although I AM presently g...

2009-01-09T11:55:00.000-08:00

I would say equally hard although I AM presently going through a divorce...ahem.
They can both be challenging but as I'm finding out, being in an unhappy and miserable marriage makes parenting much more difficult. The added stress of the relationship cuts down on your patience big time and even though you may think you're keeping it away from your kids, you really aren't and it's easy to unwittingly take it out on the little people in your life.
As far as myself, I'm happier, less stressed and a much better mom because I left his ass.
Thankssomuchhaveaniceday.

First off - Bec, you have my greatest admiration f...

2009-01-09T11:39:00.000-08:00

First off - Bec, you have my greatest admiration for all that you have accomplished, professionally and personally.

BMC is dead on (not surprisingly). A major reason I knew I wanted to marry Kyle was that I could stand to have him around 24/7. We meshed together very well in that regard, right from the start.

That said, because I prefer a lot of alone time - which is a major luxury in motherhood, especially for someone with three kids - being a mother is harder for me. The demands, the needs, the NOISE - it's rough.

The upside is that I expected motherhood to be far less rewarding than it has been. So while it often takes a toll, it gives back so much more.

It's amazing how the anonymous so always get me.

2009-01-09T11:26:00.000-08:00

It's amazing how the anonymous so always get me.