Comments on Girl's Gone Child: The Herbivore's Dilemma

This has obviously been posted for a long while bu...

2010-05-21T08:24:27.180-07:00

This has obviously been posted for a long while but I wanted to say something. I live in a small city and at one point we considered moving south to Houston Texas. Interesting place to visit but it couldn't be our home. Too far from the land. We had to drive an hour to see something other then cement. We intrinsically knew moving there would have brought on cataclysmic changes to our life style. Its only now, after reading your article and the comments do I realize that it was this sense of disconnection to the land that bothered me. Not having direct connections to egg farmers, chicken farmers, pig farmers and beef farmers and a few grain farmers (flax, canola and wheat-one of whom will grind it for me) that I have here, never mind the local caught fish with no mercury, wild rice, wild game etc that I have here would paralyze me. I live in a northern climate so the option of having locally grown produce is non existent beyond berries and a very very short season for veggies but thanks to some friends in July and august. Never ever did I think that my backwater small Canadian city would ever have anything on American cities.

This is a obviously an old blog, but I thought I'd...

2009-05-29T12:45:51.323-07:00

This is a obviously an old blog, but I thought I'd comment anyway. One of my college friends was raised by a vegetarian mother and a omnivore father. As a 20-something adult she rarely ever eats meat. Since she didn't grow up eating it, she thinks it tastes weird. So except from the occasional bite of someone else's pepperoni pizza she is a vegetarian.

This is a very interesting topic...especially rece...

2008-09-24T09:52:00.000-07:00

This is a very interesting topic...especially recently in my home. I come from a West Texas family who raises cattle. My husband comes from mostly vegetarian parents (they eat some fish). I experimented with vegetarianism during college and fell in love with all things Boca. However, I still loved my homegrown beef (it was yummy and economical...we got it straight from the butcher). My husband was strictly veg, until college...and then ate meat 50/50.
So, when I met my husband (and accumulated a few vegetarian/vegan family members and friends)...I continually thought about my diet. When we got pregnant...I couldn't stomach any kind of meat for the first four months...except turkey bacon (weird). For about two months now, hubby and I have been on a sudo-veg diet (every meat but fish is off the table). We also are struggling with "do we feed her meat?" question, but our daughter is only 7 months old. We decided that we are going to talk to our pediatrician (whom we LOVE and trust), then make the decision for ourselves. I really am not comfortable raising her to eat meat now (especially after reading this post and others like it, as well as the comments). I have a feeling tho, my family will not be so accepting of our decision (tho, my parents are somewhat "ok" with eating Boca and other meatless products). :\ I'm also struggling with how to tell them not to let her eat things (i caught my mom giving little bit a "taste" of ice cream last week!!! AAAAA!).
k, don't know if this helps or not...but i would suggest, like others, talking to your doc if you trust him/her.

I think it's great that you're teaching him not to...

2008-09-11T17:04:00.000-07:00

I think it's great that you're teaching him not to eat meat (or at least to be aware of where it comes from and let him make that choice himself) but you're going to have to come up with a good reason about why it's okay for cows to suffer and die for your shoes but not for your food. I don't understand how vegetarians can say they care about animals and then wear leather. Does not compute.

Hi. I'm just raising my hand to say I'm complacent...

2008-09-05T20:43:00.000-07:00

Hi. I'm just raising my hand to say I'm complacent, have my head in the sand, eat all kinds of meat and feed it to my son. (Soda, too!) I don't wear all that much leather, but mostly because manmade stuff is cheaper (and Target doesn't sell a whole lotta leather).

This conversation is actually making me way more nauseous than eyeing a big, juicy steak or a plate of bacon, though--'cause it's the first time I've been moved enough to decide I should perhaps give the whole issue more thought than I have in the past.

See, Bec, this is one of the many reasons I love you. And thanks for never judging me--at least not to my face--for eating meat OR for being a complacent, head-in-sand girl. :-)

XO

Miles is, like me, a vegetarian. I debated early o...

2008-09-03T21:37:00.000-07:00

Miles is, like me, a vegetarian. I debated early on whether or not to cook meat for Miles, but it seemed weird to me that I would feed him something I myself won't eat.

He eats a ton of fake meat - ask him if he likes chicken, bacon, sausage, etc. and he will say yes. He doesn't know he is eating the fake kind.

I figure if he decides to eat meat later I won't forbid it (just maybe hide some factory farm photos in his books).

Interestingly, lately whenever we play with his toy kitchen he is cooking meat. What's for lunch? Meat. What does Batman eat? Meat. Did his meat-eating father put him up to this??

Go beans.

I'm a vegetarian. My husband is not. I will cook m...

2008-09-02T13:31:00.000-07:00

I'm a vegetarian. My husband is not. I will cook meat for him, and others. I try to make sure it is organic and humanely raised when I can afford it.

My son eats meat. I let him. He also eats fake meat-- fake burgers, fake chicken nuggets-- with me.

I am sure I would be more strict about his meat consumption right now if I had not struggled so mightily to get him to eat any nutritious solid food at all. At this point in my life I have accepted that my son lives mostly off of chicken nuggets. I try to see that sometimes it's soy chicken.

It IS very important to me that my son learns where his food comes from and becomes a mindful eater, at least eventually. That is why it is so important to me to have a garden in our yard. This year he planted pole beans from seed, and helped water and weed them; now they are twice as tall as he is. He won't eat them, of course. But he knows they are food. He knows food comes from the earth, and the sun, and it grows and lives before we eat it. And I think once a person really knows that in the bones, it can't be forgotten.

I taught my children (by example) not to eat anyth...

2008-09-01T21:04:00.000-07:00

I taught my children (by example) not to eat anything that has a face. It worked well when they were very young and it continues to work well now that my eldest son is in college.
Eldest son lives in a dorm with other vegetarians. They cook together, take turns shopping at a farmers' market and so on. He doesn't wear leather shoes and clothing although the car his grandmother gave him as a high school graduation gift has leather seats. That produced some soul-searching and dinner table discussion but in the end he decided to keep it. I really can't fault him: not many 17-year-olds can be expected to refuse a new BMW.
The younger kids (boy/girl twins, 9) steadfastly refuse to eat chicken or eggs. They sometimes beg for McDonalds but more for the toys than anything else. They raised a calf for a 4-H project this year so steak is out, probably permanently.
They attend a private school that has a pretty decent salad bar and surprisingly healthy lunch choices.
It's not easy to raise kids to respect their bodies and other forms of life around them. I'm glad my children learned to think before stuffing fast food in their mouths.

Whoops, forgot the second part of my comment:
<...

2008-08-31T10:32:00.000-07:00

Whoops, forgot the second part of my comment:

I'm with Billie, Archer is you and Hal's baby. So as long and you and Hal are a united front, raise him how you see fit.

But recognize that eventually he will make the decision for himself, so educate him in the meantime and be ready to have your heart at least temporarily broken by a Big Mac.

This won't help your questions at all, but I s...

2008-08-31T10:23:00.000-07:00

This won't help your questions at all, but I still thought I'd chime in.

My toddler is almost a self-imposed vegetarian, which actually has been really good for our family. We're now eating more beans and eggs as our protein source, and as our grocery bill is going down by introducing vegetarian options, I'll be able to get the free-range natural meat & poultry from the farmer's market without breaking the bank. Hoorah! A win-win.

You've seen those small billboards around town "My...

2008-08-30T18:24:00.000-07:00

You've seen those small billboards around town "My kitchen, my rules!" Well I strongly believe in that. If you don't want your kiddos to have meat, well there you go! And like a PP said - it's no one's business how you feed your kid. And who the heck cares if you don't eat meat but wear leather. Pfffft. Doesn't bother me and definitely shouldn't bother you!

Mleh - you love your son (and soon to be daughter) and you feed them! That, to me, is enough. :)

I really don't think it's anyone else's damn busin...

2008-08-30T08:31:00.000-07:00

I really don't think it's anyone else's damn business how you choose to raise your child. If you don't want him to eat meat, then don't allow him to eat meat. It will probably be hard to enforce since your husband does eat red meat, but as "ok" with him eating it as you are, you probably wont freak out as much as you think if your son (or daughter) wants to.
We are too interested in labels anymore, all that should matter is that you care enough about your son to want whats best for him! Screw anyone who thinks any differently.
Surprise! I'm a red meat eater!

I hate to say it,but I sorta agree with Dr. Pig to...

2008-08-30T00:44:00.000-07:00

I hate to say it,but I sorta agree with Dr. Pig too: If you're gonna be against meat production, you ought to be against everyday products. Do some research on it: there's fake fur and leather out there.

My best friend has 3 kids, one's still a baby ...

2008-08-29T17:18:00.000-07:00

My best friend has 3 kids, one's still a baby but the other ones are 4 & 6 years old. They have raised their kids vegetarian because they are vegetarians themselves. The kids have never had meat - they eat a LOT of fake meat, chick patties and fake lunchmeat and fake meatballs etc, but they don't ask for meat. They know where meat comes from, and they don't want to to eat it. When they get older they might feel differently, and she will allow them to make their own decision. But for now, it's not something that my friend has really had to enforce because it's just the way they live their lives.

I think that if you raise Archer in a meatless home, and you don't go overboard about meat, but also let him know it does come from animals, I don't think you will have a problem. I don't think you'll HAVE to freak out. As long as he knows that it's his right NOT to eat meat if he doesn't want to, and he knows not to feel pressured by the school or his friends, he'll be fine.

I think fearing the judgment of others is perfectl...

2008-08-29T16:50:00.000-07:00

I think fearing the judgment of others is perfectly natural, especially when it comes to parenting. People get really sensitive really quickly when kids are involved.

I'm raising my son vegan (not so hard yet--he's 9 months old), and I too am afraid of being the psycho-anti-hotdog mother. But I try to remind myself that people will judge me regardless of what I believe about food and choose to feed my family. If it's not diet that's the issue, it will be something else.

It sounds like you're doing a great job. Archer will most certainly grow up to be a sensitive, thoughful eater.

Pig -- If you seriously want to talk about hypocri...

2008-08-29T14:13:00.000-07:00

Pig -- If you seriously want to talk about hypocrisy when it comes to beef vs. leather and "major issues with eating an animal vs wearing one" then we're all a bunch of hypocrites when we (anti meat peeps) so much as eat an organic salad. (Organic produce is grown in animal byproducts including blood, bone and waste -- from non-regulated farms. This is the only way to grow organic without fertilizers/chemical treated soils.)

I love how leather is always the issue for people who don't "get it"... Do you KNOW how many animal byproducts go into EVERYTHING? Leather shoes are only a small portion of where the rest of the animal goes after being slaughtered for meat. So if you seriously want to get on me for my choices, do some research, doctor.

People love to get all high and mighty about food ...

2008-08-29T11:55:00.000-07:00

People love to get all high and mighty about food and labels like vegetarian/vegan/macrobiotic/kosher etc. Please! Can't we all just eat what we want to without being judged for it? I mean, it's just food, people!

I have not eaten meat since I was 10 years old, although I do eat eggs and dairy. My two kids (ages 2 and 4) don't eat meat either, but if they ever want to eat it in the future, I'm fine with it. It's their choice.

Rebecca - others have said it better than me, but I completely respect your food choices regarding your child, whether or not you allow him to eat meat. All labels aside, he's your kid and you don't need to justify your decisions about what he does and does not eat.

Actually, you are an incredible hypocrite. My wif...

2008-08-29T09:49:00.000-07:00

Actually, you are an incredible hypocrite. My wife is a vegetarian (though I am not), and I fully respect that, so no problem there. But your distinction between eating meat and wearing leather doesn't jive. Because while I understand the nourishment argument, you lament the way the animals are raised and slaughtered. Well, if that is truly your concern, the cows that produced the leather for your shoes were raised and slaughtered in exactly the same way as the cows in Mickey D's hamburgers. If you want to be "vegetarian" (which you're not - you need a different label for yourself, though why you feel you need a label in the first place is interesting in itself) and wear leather, fine. My wife is the same way, although she really is a vegetarian. But please don't pretend that there is any fundamental or philosophical difference between eating meat and wearing leather if your rationale involves the treatment of livestock that produce these products. And as for somehow thinking that cows and pigs somehow have it better than turkeys and suffer less... If you really think you can kill a turkey and make a sandwich out of it I'll send you the turkey.

We've raised our daughter to be demi-vegetarian, a...

2008-08-29T06:56:00.000-07:00

We've raised our daughter to be demi-vegetarian, as we are seafood people too. It's our option for dining out, or for our families to cook for us as they seem to have a hard time grasping the idea of cooking without meat. I struggled with the flack I got from our parents as they felt and had heard it was bad to raise children without meats due to the lack of protein...a big time false fact. We've raised a fairly well educated 6 year old daughter to know where her food comes from, and at this point she claims to find meat gross - personally I do too.

In anything you do in life you'll be judged....whether it's a food choice or a clothing choice. My in-laws have already judged me as being crazy because for probably the first 2 years of my daughters life I sent a sheet with her schedule on it always including that we don't want her to eat meat. I didn't care that I knew that they'd respect my decision to not feed her meat, I wanted to make sure that they knew we were for certain not going to give it to her under any circumstances.

My daughter is now entering the 1st grade, she knows and claims she doesn't eat meat proudly. I am dreading making her lunch almost every day of the school year, but in the end I know what I'm making her is far better than the crud they would feed her at school!

Hi,

I have two children ages 3 and 5 and w...

2008-08-28T20:54:00.000-07:00

Hi,

I have two children ages 3 and 5 and we have raised them to be mostly vegan. I grew up eating meat and changed my habits in college after educating myself on factory farming methods and seeing first hand how inhumanely cows were treated on dairy farms.

So far we haven't had too much flak for our dietary choices and my oldest will just say that we don't eat that if meat or cheese is being offered someplace. She'll be bringing a bag lunch to school even though buying a meal would be much less of a hassle. We do let them celebrate friends' birthdays with cake and ice cream and go trick or treating on Halloween (eating milk chocolate). We have also said they can try meat or cheese at their grandparent's if they wish to. So far they have chosen not to.

We have explained that we don't eat meat because we don't want to eat animals and generally animals that are eaten and dairy cows aren't treated so well.

I also try not to make a big deal of it and have talked to them about how everyone has different rules and choices in different households. At this age it hasn't been an issue and they have accepted to eat what they've been given. We stress that different people like to eat different foods. If they grow up to eat meat, then that is their choice. They are individuals and may not carry our beliefs with them, but I hope that I at least teach them to be respectful of people's choices and that they understand why we made the decision to go from meat eaters to vegans.

I've read your book Rebecca and it's clear you go with your gut and make choices that are a reflection of you as an individual and this decision should be no different. Go with what feels right for you at the time. It may change as you and your family evolve. Archer and your new baby will grow up in a household that has 2 parents with varying beliefs and practices on a range of issues, diet being just one. You will both be examples to them. Don't sweat the outcome.

Hey, wonderful post. I think your approach is enti...

2008-08-28T10:19:00.000-07:00

Hey, wonderful post. I think your approach is entirely sensible. There is a growing thing called the "slow food movement" which is trying to restore humane practices to animal raising -- gives me hope for the future as an omnivore ;)

At the risk of being a debbie downer, though, as a marine biologist I feel obligated to point out that the environmental cost of exploiting wild seafood is probably equivalent to that of factory farming. It's a catastrophe. Not sure what the answer is, but rigorous local and international cooperation on conservation is going to have to happen or there really isn't going to be any seafood at all :(

I'm fifteen and have been a vegetarian my whole li...

2008-08-28T09:49:00.000-07:00

I'm fifteen and have been a vegetarian my whole life, not because of animals rights or religion, but because my mom was one. I was never forced into vegetarianism,I always chose it. As I hear more about hormones, factory farming,and contamination, I'm glad I'm a vegetarian. I have tried a little meat (Canadian pizza) but never plan to do so again. As long as better options are provided, there is no reason to have any hesitation about raising any child vegetarian.

This was a really fascinating post! I wouldn't wo...

2008-08-28T08:21:00.000-07:00

This was a really fascinating post! I wouldn't worry too much about other people's opinions when you don't want them to feed Archer meat. My brother-in-law and sister-in-law are vegetarians, and they're raising my nephew the same. We go out to eat with them a lot, and they stay at our house a lot, and with the exception of one accidental bite of a turkey hot dog that wasn't a tofu hot dog, my nephew hasn't had meat in all 2.5 years of his life. No one really questions them when they politely let people know that as a family, they are vegetarians.

I do think it's interesting that you don't want Archer to be complacent about what he eats. In a way, right now he is complacently following your lead. It may be that when he grows up he "rebels" but there are WAY worse ways that he could go against your personal beliefs or wishes. (Maybe not worse for you emotionally, but surely worse for him in regards to safety, health, etc.)

I think what your doing is awesome, and as long as he understands what's going on when he's old enough to understand what's going on, I doubt you'll have problems. You might be "that mom" once in a while but aren't we all--over something or another?

Red meat is out-law from the house. I happen to b...

2008-08-28T07:48:00.000-07:00

Red meat is out-law from the house. I happen to be allergic to it and so it is just not cooked in my house at all. Cross contamination could be very bad. The kids understand that and don't even ask for it. I also have some other food allergies (preservatives mainly, yeah I know I am wierd), and so we eat a lot healthy than most people. (i.e. No fast food, precooked products, prepackaged products.) They seem to like it just fine, in most cases. Othertimes they just want to eat ice cream for dinner.

After reading the comments, I'm shocked. I didn't ...

2008-08-27T20:51:00.000-07:00

After reading the comments, I'm shocked. I didn't know there were so many different variations of a vegetarian. I don't consume red meat, dairy, or eggs...not because of any reason other than they don't agree with me. I tend to be ultra sensitive when it comes to the physical side effects of foods.

I say your child, your decision and more than likely other people will respect that.